In my league, i have the "Power & Playoff Rank Tiebreakers" setup based on:
1) Division Record 2) Head-to-Head record 3) Average Points
But my current power rankings would seem to indicate that is not how the power ranking is being processed. Two teams in the same division with the same overall and division record.
They played each other once in head-to-head but the team that won in head-to-head is lower in the power rankings.
My league appear to be having some trouble sorting out the proper playoff seedings as well.
12 teams, 3 divisions of 4 teams, standard tie-breakers in effect:
Best division record (same division only) Best head-to-head record Most average points/game Hardest schedule (record) Hardest schedule (points)
Example of problem, my teams power ranking is # 7 with my playoff seeding being #11. The team that currently has the the #7 playoff seeding - I defeated this last week, which is our only head to head match-up this season. Our overall record is tied (4-7) and since we are NOT in the same division and I have the above mentioned better head to head record - Wouldn't I have a higher playoff seeding than my current position and he have a lower one??
We have two teams in our league in the same division with the same overall (7-3) record.
According to the tiebreakers, it should go with division record first as they are in the same division..
The one team with a 4-1 division record has a lower power ranking than the team with the 3-2 division record. Even beyond that, if it went to head-to-head record, the team with the 4-1 division record is 1-0 against the other team.
yes, there is another 7-3 team in the other division. At that point, in our tie breakers, it goes to head-to-head next and the team in the other division holds the head-to-head tiebreaker against one team and is tied head-to-head with the other 7-3 team. The other 7-3 team has the higher point total and rightly gets ranked higher.
But, at that point, the two remaining 7-3 teams in the same division should have another tie-breaker which goes first to the division record where the 4-1 division revord team *should* be ranked about the 3-2 division record team but is not.
but shouldn't it still go by head-to-head record? head-to-head, the team that is ranked 4th in power record has beaten the team ranked 3rd in head-to-head
well, i kind of see what's going on. It ties back to the total order thing.. A beat B, B beat C, but C beat A.. so it goes to the PF to break the 3 way tie
And Team A rightly gets the highest ranking. My question then goes to the remaining two teams, does the PF tie-breaker continue? shouldn't it get reset to break the tie between the remaining teams B and C?
My take on that is that if there are 4 teams tied, it goes through that tie breakers without resetting until there are only 2 teams left at which point it resets back to the two-club tie breaker format.
ok.. there are 3 teams with 5-1 records. But the team in question that is listed as #2 in the power rankings has beaten both the #1 and the #3 ranked team.
what do you mean he doesn't hold the tiebreaker over both teams? He won head-to-head against both teams.. doesnt' that mean he holds the tie breaker against both teams?
"Head-to-head sweeps - if one club has defeated each of the others"
He has defeated each of teh others involved in the tie..
it ranks them correctly in the playoff standings.. but why not in the power rankings? shouldn't something titled "power & playoff rank tiebreakers" apply to both playoff and power rankings?
on a side note: an edit option on your own messages would be a great feature to have.
osnn_fitzTue 10/14/08 4:24 PM
1) Division Record
2) Head-to-Head record
3) Average Points
But my current power rankings would seem to indicate that is not how the power ranking is being processed. Two teams in the same division with the same overall and division record.
They played each other once in head-to-head but the team that won in head-to-head is lower in the power rankings.
Jaybo71Wed 11/19/08 4:50 AM
12 teams, 3 divisions of 4 teams, standard tie-breakers in effect:
Best division record (same division only)
Best head-to-head record
Most average points/game
Hardest schedule (record)
Hardest schedule (points)
Example of problem, my teams power ranking is # 7 with my playoff seeding being #11. The team that currently has the the #7 playoff seeding - I defeated this last week, which is our only head to head match-up this season. Our overall record is tied (4-7) and since we are NOT in the same division and I have the above mentioned better head to head record - Wouldn't I have a higher playoff seeding than my current position and he have a lower one??
Any Idea what is happening? Thanks.
LEAGUE NAME= TOUGH_GUYS_FOOTBALL
fleafounder AdminWed 11/19/08 4:53 PM
Follow the description on the right--it details the steps.
We first eliminate all but the best team from each division.
Then a sole "winner" emerges from the smaller group.
Everyone else is grouped back into a new tie and the process repeats.
osnn_fitzTue 11/11/08 12:14 PM
We have two teams in our league in the same division with the same overall (7-3) record.
According to the tiebreakers, it should go with division record first as they are in the same division..
The one team with a 4-1 division record has a lower power ranking than the team with the 3-2 division record. Even beyond that, if it went to head-to-head record, the team with the 4-1 division record is 1-0 against the other team.
iamgreggThu 11/13/08 12:12 PM
If so, a 3 (or more) way tie may be settled on points scored. Thus why the power rankigns would seem the wrong way around.
In their own division it is a 2 way tie, which is settled on divisional record and head-to-head (from what you've said).
osnn_fitzSun 11/16/08 2:35 AM
But, at that point, the two remaining 7-3 teams in the same division should have another tie-breaker which goes first to the division record where the 4-1 division revord team *should* be ranked about the 3-2 division record team but is not.
fleafounder AdminSun 11/16/08 12:50 PM
They ignore divisional records to provide a league-wide power rank.
osnn_fitzSun 11/16/08 1:44 PM
osnn_fitzSun 11/16/08 8:06 PM
A beat B, B beat C, but C beat A.. so it goes to the PF to break the 3 way tie
And Team A rightly gets the highest ranking. My question then goes to the remaining two teams, does the PF tie-breaker continue? shouldn't it get reset to break the tie between the remaining teams B and C?
fleafounder AdminMon 11/17/08 10:35 AM
However, it's an interesting point. The NFL's rules aren't entirely clear on this.
If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format.
But it also says
When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card.
osnn_fitzTue 11/18/08 12:02 AM
fleafounder AdminMon 10/20/08 8:27 PM
Thanks for reporting this. It was an obscure glitch which could have affected other leagues and I would not have noticed it without your help.
osnn_fitzWed 10/22/08 10:40 PM
Thanks! :)
fleafounder AdminSun 10/19/08 9:21 AM
For example, if A beats B, B beats C and C beats A, head-to-head cannot be used to break the tie:
A > B
B > C
C > A
osnn_fitzSun 10/19/08 12:24 PM
A beat B
A beat C
shouldn't be A be ranked as the #1?
osnn_fitzSun 10/19/08 12:25 PM
fleafounder AdminSun 10/19/08 12:51 PM
In order for head-to-head to apply with 3 teams you need to hold the tiebreaker over both (or conversely lost to both).
The NFL rules phrase it like this:
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
osnn_fitzSun 10/19/08 3:09 PM
"Head-to-head sweeps - if one club has defeated each of the others"
He has defeated each of teh others involved in the tie..
fleafounder AdminSun 10/19/08 5:54 PM
You are 100% right.
I'll apply the fix this week.
XerSun 10/19/08 2:22 AM
osnn_fitzThu 10/16/08 2:36 PM
osnn_fitzTue 10/14/08 4:26 PM
on a side note: an edit option on your own messages would be a great feature to have.