Sorry to write since I thought I understood the tie break rules. In our league, Riding Club, we have a 4 way tie with 4 teams at 6-7. Two of them will make the playoffs. We have 1 division. 14 teams. 13 games. Every team in the league plays every other team one time.
Head to head is the first tie breaker right?
Between these 4 teams, Groundhogs and Jomama are both 2-1 versus the other 3 teams in the tie. Bomb Squad and OwnsVegas are 1-2. With that, why aren't Groundhogs and Jomama winning the tie? How does Bomb Squad come out ahead of Jomama? Jomama even beat Bomb Squad head to head. The 2 teams (amongst these 4 teams) with the best head to head at 2-1 should make the playoffs.
What is at issue here is how the head-to-head record is applied. I agree with Hickey that FF does not apply it the way the NFL does. NFL applies the best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the tied teams while FF applies a sweep format. That being said, FF clearly states that head-to-head is applicable only if 1 team sweeps the others or 1 team is swept by the others. When FF states that they follow the tie breaker the same as the NFL, they are refering to the process that the NFL uses. So if you have 4 teams tied you go through each rule (1, 2, 3, ...) until it breaks at least one team from the tie. If 3 teams then remain tied, you start over again with rule 1 and so on until all ties are broken. That's just my 2 cents.
Also, the NFL uses the won-lost-tied percentage because of the fact that all teams may not play the same amount of games against each other. This is probably the case for alot of the FF leagues since many only play a 13 game schedule, so FF may want to change how they apply head-to-head. Just my opinion, nothing more.
The bottom line is that Fleaflicker does not recognize one division leagues as such. They consider these to have NO DIVISIONS. So in their mind if you have one division, then you have no divisions, and therefore the normal division tiebreakers aren't used. The normal division tiebreaker would be head to head percentage, but FF requires one team TO SWEEP all of the other teams in the tie. ILLOGICAL. And the admin at FF is too stubborn/lazy to realize this and correct it.
Your leagues are private. The Commish can easily change playoff seedings if your league wishes to use different tiebreakers. You, your leagues, and your league Commishes, are "too stubborn/lazy to realize this and correct it".
Joe, I understand your frustration, but I think you are reading their comments wrong. FF lets leagues setup tiebreakers in any order they want. It does not follow the NFL tiebreaker order, just the process of how it goes through the tiebreakers as I indicated above. Your league's first tiebreaker is best head-to-head record, which FF states has to be a sweep. I agree that percentage would be better, but that's not how FF set it up. You can argue until you are blue in the face about what it should be, but bottom line is they indicate that it has to be a sweep. So it is what it is. On their comment about not having the division tiebreaker, they are referring to Best Division Record (Same Division Only) tiebreaker rule which your league does not have. This makes sense since your division record would be the same as your league record. I think FF is right in this case only because they do state how they apply the head-to-head tiebreaker. In my league I use Most Average Points as the 1st tiebreaker which usually eliminates having to go any further, but this year we did actually have to go to the 2nd tiebreaker. Quite a surprise. I hope this helps.
Finally someone who understands logic. Yes, I agree with you 100%, but my issue is that they don't specify that it must be a sweep (unless you hold your mouse over the tiebreaker rule and a pop-up comes up, most miniscule thing ever), and naming the tiebreaker "head-to-head record" when it is not in fact head to head record is wrong. Secondly, in their explanation, they claim to follow the NFL tiebreaker rules, which again they do not as the NFL uses head-to-head percentage for the wildcard.
Yeah, I've learned over the years to mouse over things as they do a lot of pop-ups. Which is cool because that allows them to add lots of info. You're right about the name, they should call this rule Head-to-Head Sweep instead of Head-to-Head Record.
Jo-MAmaTue 12/3/13 9:52 AM
Sorry to write since I thought I understood the tie break rules. In our league, Riding Club, we have a 4 way tie with 4 teams at 6-7. Two of them will make the playoffs. We have 1 division. 14 teams. 13 games. Every team in the league plays every other team one time.
Head to head is the first tie breaker right?
Between these 4 teams, Groundhogs and Jomama are both 2-1 versus the other 3 teams in the tie. Bomb Squad and OwnsVegas are 1-2. With that, why aren't Groundhogs and Jomama winning the tie? How does Bomb Squad come out ahead of Jomama? Jomama even beat Bomb Squad head to head. The 2 teams (amongst these 4 teams) with the best head to head at 2-1 should make the playoffs.
Please explain.
Thank you
WolfpacksrMon 12/9/13 11:10 AM
What is at issue here is how the head-to-head record is applied. I agree with Hickey that FF does not apply it the way the NFL does. NFL applies the best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the tied teams while FF applies a sweep format. That being said, FF clearly states that head-to-head is applicable only if 1 team sweeps the others or 1 team is swept by the others. When FF states that they follow the tie breaker the same as the NFL, they are refering to the process that the NFL uses. So if you have 4 teams tied you go through each rule (1, 2, 3, ...) until it breaks at least one team from the tie. If 3 teams then remain tied, you start over again with rule 1 and so on until all ties are broken. That's just my 2 cents.
WolfpacksrMon 12/9/13 11:19 AM
Also, the NFL uses the won-lost-tied percentage because of the fact that all teams may not play the same amount of games against each other. This is probably the case for alot of the FF leagues since many only play a 13 game schedule, so FF may want to change how they apply head-to-head. Just my opinion, nothing more.
Jo-MAmaTue 12/10/13 9:08 AM
The bottom line is that Fleaflicker does not recognize one division leagues as such. They consider these to have NO DIVISIONS. So in their mind if you have one division, then you have no divisions, and therefore the normal division tiebreakers aren't used. The normal division tiebreaker would be head to head percentage, but FF requires one team TO SWEEP all of the other teams in the tie. ILLOGICAL. And the admin at FF is too stubborn/lazy to realize this and correct it.
rangerdaveTue 12/10/13 12:05 PM
Your leagues are private. The Commish can easily change playoff seedings if your league wishes to use different tiebreakers. You, your leagues, and your league Commishes, are "too stubborn/lazy to realize this and correct it".
RockChikTue 12/10/13 12:36 PM
You can't just change the tiebreakers at the end of the season.
WolfpacksrTue 12/10/13 12:41 PM
Joe, I understand your frustration, but I think you are reading their comments wrong. FF lets leagues setup tiebreakers in any order they want. It does not follow the NFL tiebreaker order, just the process of how it goes through the tiebreakers as I indicated above. Your league's first tiebreaker is best head-to-head record, which FF states has to be a sweep. I agree that percentage would be better, but that's not how FF set it up. You can argue until you are blue in the face about what it should be, but bottom line is they indicate that it has to be a sweep. So it is what it is. On their comment about not having the division tiebreaker, they are referring to Best Division Record (Same Division Only) tiebreaker rule which your league does not have. This makes sense since your division record would be the same as your league record. I think FF is right in this case only because they do state how they apply the head-to-head tiebreaker. In my league I use Most Average Points as the 1st tiebreaker which usually eliminates having to go any further, but this year we did actually have to go to the 2nd tiebreaker. Quite a surprise. I hope this helps.
Mike_HickeyTue 12/10/13 3:49 PM
Finally someone who understands logic. Yes, I agree with you 100%, but my issue is that they don't specify that it must be a sweep (unless you hold your mouse over the tiebreaker rule and a pop-up comes up, most miniscule thing ever), and naming the tiebreaker "head-to-head record" when it is not in fact head to head record is wrong. Secondly, in their explanation, they claim to follow the NFL tiebreaker rules, which again they do not as the NFL uses head-to-head percentage for the wildcard.
WolfpacksrTue 12/10/13 5:55 PM
Yeah, I've learned over the years to mouse over things as they do a lot of pop-ups. Which is cool because that allows them to add lots of info. You're right about the name, they should call this rule Head-to-Head Sweep instead of Head-to-Head Record.