With the 4-3 and 3-4 being the most prevalent base schemes, and with all defenses running a multitude of schemes with defensive players playing multiple positions, IDP needs to be rethought. While yes, we have flex options, we do not have either enough options to make proper flexes, or the proper defensive labels.
PFF and the AP have moved on from the traditional labels on defense after Khalil Mack got 1st team All-Pro for both OLB and DE. We all know that was silly, because he never truly played a 4-3 LB. He's an edge defender. So the AP recreated their defensive all-pro team to account for "edge defender." In conjunction with that, 3-4 DEs got acknowledgement as interior defenders, with Cameron Heyward making the first team last year. The disparate roles overlap. 3-4 OLBs and 4-3 DEs share the same base responsibilities. Defend the edge and rush the passer from the edge. 3-4 DEs and 4-3 DTs also do the same. Plug the B gap and maybe an A gap to draw a double team. Same as a 4-3 DT.
Because of the mischaracterization of 3-4 OLBs as "simply LBs," IDP in general has an overabundance of LB, a lack of DE, and a glut of defensive interior DE who would serve well as a DT (in leagues that require DT), being essentially worthless when compared to someone like Calais Campbell.
My suggestions are to either:
Add two IDP positions. "Defensive interior" and "edge defender."
Allow commissioners to create custom positions and add players to the custom position whenever they'd like.
Or, allow commissioners to put any position in any roster spot.
Greater league and commissioner autonomy could go a long way, but at the very least fantasy IDP needs to catch up with the realities of football. It would go a long way to creating a more enjoyable experience for those of us who appreciate line play.
THIS^^^ Been wanting it for a long time. It's finally spreading into fantasy, hopefully Fleaflicker joins other sites ASAP as some of the first to implement??
How hard do you think it would be to scrape the data from PFF or ESPN? I know that PFF has all of the positions lined up like this.
Cam Heyward is a 3-4 DE. He's listed as DI on PFF.
Von Miller is a 3-4 OLB. He's listed as an edge defender on PFF.
Joey Bosa is a 4-3 DE. He's listed as an edge defender on PFF.
Fletcher Cox is a 4-3 DT. He's listed as a DI on PFF.
The data is all there. I know some websites, like My Fantasy League, scrape their data from Rotoworld. But maybe it's just time to move on from the roster designations on roto. They seem a little uptight about the positions and don't really want to keep up with the times, and there are some IDP writers on there who are adamant that the positions should be separate, which I'm really not a fan of because all they're doing is arguing that autonomy should be kept out of commissioners' hands. Which is why I like Fleaflicker and am stoked to have my first league here finally. The scoring options are unequaled, even by MFL.
Anyways, scraping from PFF and just letting the roster positions designate themselves from PFF's data sounds easy. Hell, they could scrape it from ESPN too. They have that data. I suspect they do the same, as Heyward is listed as a DT on ESPN's fantasy site instead of a DE. They also have the "edge rusher" position that works as a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE flex position. I just don't know if PFF's and ESPN's positional data is considered proprietary or not.
Edit: apparently you can't add links to your comment. But you can fact check me on those positional listings if you just google their names and PFF. It should be the first result.
Update. Just checked. ESPN has the "edge rusher" categorization and assigns 3-4 DEs to the DT category. Can we please make this happen? Pretty please? Your site is better in almost every way when it comes to IDP. It'd be a shame for ESPN to have this edge (no pun intended).
And this is why its aggravating. Khalil Mack has been traded to the Bears, going from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB, tanking his value. One of the best players in the game is now no longer valued properly.
Great points, obviously you have done alot of homework, have you emailed this to flea? About 45 of my 50 leagues are IDP, would love to see these changes.
Haven't logged on in a while. I think I sent an email to FF a long time ago, maybe before last season, but I don't recall actually getting a response. It really isn't a hard thing for them to implement from a programming perspective, I would imagine, so it's a little disappointing that I've gotten no response on this.
I take that back! I use a throwaway email for these sorts of sites and I did get a response back in September. They said they'd look into it in the offseason, but I haven't received an update beyond that.
ChancefWed 8/29/18 11:58 AM
With the 4-3 and 3-4 being the most prevalent base schemes, and with all defenses running a multitude of schemes with defensive players playing multiple positions, IDP needs to be rethought. While yes, we have flex options, we do not have either enough options to make proper flexes, or the proper defensive labels.
PFF and the AP have moved on from the traditional labels on defense after Khalil Mack got 1st team All-Pro for both OLB and DE. We all know that was silly, because he never truly played a 4-3 LB. He's an edge defender. So the AP recreated their defensive all-pro team to account for "edge defender." In conjunction with that, 3-4 DEs got acknowledgement as interior defenders, with Cameron Heyward making the first team last year. The disparate roles overlap. 3-4 OLBs and 4-3 DEs share the same base responsibilities. Defend the edge and rush the passer from the edge. 3-4 DEs and 4-3 DTs also do the same. Plug the B gap and maybe an A gap to draw a double team. Same as a 4-3 DT.
Because of the mischaracterization of 3-4 OLBs as "simply LBs," IDP in general has an overabundance of LB, a lack of DE, and a glut of defensive interior DE who would serve well as a DT (in leagues that require DT), being essentially worthless when compared to someone like Calais Campbell.
My suggestions are to either:
Add two IDP positions. "Defensive interior" and "edge defender."
Allow commissioners to create custom positions and add players to the custom position whenever they'd like.
Or, allow commissioners to put any position in any roster spot.
Greater league and commissioner autonomy could go a long way, but at the very least fantasy IDP needs to catch up with the realities of football. It would go a long way to creating a more enjoyable experience for those of us who appreciate line play.
ChancefWed 12/5/18 12:19 PM
Bump
ChancefSat 1/5/19 5:27 PM
def still worth a bump
IBBranFri 10/26/18 12:32 AM
THIS^^^ Been wanting it for a long time. It's finally spreading into fantasy, hopefully Fleaflicker joins other sites ASAP as some of the first to implement??
ChancefFri 10/26/18 1:54 AM
I hope so too! It's at the top of my wish list, along with more CB stats.
NingDynastyThu 8/30/18 5:41 PM
2nd the motion, it makes the most sense.
ChancefFri 8/31/18 5:45 PM
How hard do you think it would be to scrape the data from PFF or ESPN? I know that PFF has all of the positions lined up like this.
Cam Heyward is a 3-4 DE. He's listed as DI on PFF.
Von Miller is a 3-4 OLB. He's listed as an edge defender on PFF.
Joey Bosa is a 4-3 DE. He's listed as an edge defender on PFF.
Fletcher Cox is a 4-3 DT. He's listed as a DI on PFF.
The data is all there. I know some websites, like My Fantasy League, scrape their data from Rotoworld. But maybe it's just time to move on from the roster designations on roto. They seem a little uptight about the positions and don't really want to keep up with the times, and there are some IDP writers on there who are adamant that the positions should be separate, which I'm really not a fan of because all they're doing is arguing that autonomy should be kept out of commissioners' hands. Which is why I like Fleaflicker and am stoked to have my first league here finally. The scoring options are unequaled, even by MFL.
Anyways, scraping from PFF and just letting the roster positions designate themselves from PFF's data sounds easy. Hell, they could scrape it from ESPN too. They have that data. I suspect they do the same, as Heyward is listed as a DT on ESPN's fantasy site instead of a DE. They also have the "edge rusher" position that works as a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE flex position. I just don't know if PFF's and ESPN's positional data is considered proprietary or not.
Edit: apparently you can't add links to your comment. But you can fact check me on those positional listings if you just google their names and PFF. It should be the first result.
ChancefThu 8/30/18 1:31 AM
Update. Just checked. ESPN has the "edge rusher" categorization and assigns 3-4 DEs to the DT category. Can we please make this happen? Pretty please? Your site is better in almost every way when it comes to IDP. It'd be a shame for ESPN to have this edge (no pun intended).
ChancefSat 9/1/18 11:27 AM
And this is why its aggravating. Khalil Mack has been traded to the Bears, going from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB, tanking his value. One of the best players in the game is now no longer valued properly.
ChancefSun 9/9/18 9:44 PM
Can we get a response on this? Seeing Khalil Mack as both DE/LB eligible while literally every other 3-4 OLB isn't is actually kind of bonkers.
ChancefWed 11/28/18 10:01 PM
Any chance we could get a response to this one?
ChancefSat 5/4/19 5:47 PM
Any chance that this could get acknowledged?
BLemMon 5/13/19 11:37 PM
Agreed this should be in the works. Even if able to separate OLB from ILB or MLB would allow a "Edge" flex set to OLB or DE
bigbaldbastardMon 6/10/19 1:52 PM
Great points, obviously you have done alot of homework, have you emailed this to flea? About 45 of my 50 leagues are IDP, would love to see these changes.
bigbaldbastardMon 6/10/19 1:53 PM
I should say got any response from flea?
EquableRogueMon 6/24/19 12:31 PM
Yeah, this is needed everywhere (hi Madden)
ChancefFri 7/5/19 4:09 PM
Haven't logged on in a while. I think I sent an email to FF a long time ago, maybe before last season, but I don't recall actually getting a response. It really isn't a hard thing for them to implement from a programming perspective, I would imagine, so it's a little disappointing that I've gotten no response on this.
ChancefFri 7/5/19 4:34 PM
I take that back! I use a throwaway email for these sorts of sites and I did get a response back in September. They said they'd look into it in the offseason, but I haven't received an update beyond that.