Browsing through older topics, it does appear that this conversation has taken place many times before--IDP position assignments.
My question is then: Has there been any progress on this front?
This year's example that was brought to my attention as commissioner being K'Lavon Chaisson, who is listed as an LB, therefore making him essentially useless.
Even if positions are determined via an external data partner, is there any chance commissioners could gain the ability to tweak positional eligibility? Or at least instead of following your data partner's information to a T, couldn't players such as Chaisson and Bradley Chubb be given LB/DL eligibility?
This could apply to someone like Taysom Hill as well, with QB/TE eligibility.
No dual eligibility. Edge rushers in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive ends, not linebackers. And defensive ends in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive tackles. This makes the scoring more balanced in IDP leagues.
For example, JJ Watt was the #22 ranked LB last year in our standard scoring. With this change, he'll be tied for #1 DE.
Guys, it’s a great new feature, but it should have been an optional one to switch on. For existing leagues (I have one with 8 years of history), arbitrarily introducing this change has completely changed the value of a lot of teams rosters, both positively and negatively.
There are several teams who have drafted teams to fit in with the league’s longstanding roster requirements, and now can no longer field enough LBs. Others now have a surplus of DEs.
Also, by doing this in the middle of rookie draft season, teams that thought they were drafting a LB have now found themselves with a DE (Isaiah Simmons), or drafting a DE and now owning a DT (Yetur Gross Matos).
Yes, you can make position adjustments as you have done previously when teams switch between 3-4/4-3 etc, but I don’t think enough thought has gone into the impact this has had on existing leagues and live drafts.
We play in leagues with the understanding that the rules are set at a certain point in time, it’s a level playing field and we’re all drafting, setting lineups and making trades/waiver claims/adds/drops with those league rules in mind.
If leagues want to take advantage of this new feature, we should be able to opt in to it, in the same way as we can configure everything else.
I appreciate what you’re doing to improve your site and offer as many features as you can, but I think you need to reconsider how you’ve rolled this out, and give people the option to choose if/how/when they implement these changes.
Fully agree with spida1998 that this should be an optional change at least for a 1 year notice period as it can be a game changer for some team and truly affects the way some of us have constructed our team. Add the change in the middle (or in my case late) of your draft makes it tougher as well.
I totally agree with everything said here spida1998.
A major selling point by Flea to all new customers to their site is their total flexibility offered to commishes setting up leagues as they see fit. That has been severely dented by this change today IMO.
In 100% agreement with the 3 posts above. I've made moves in the off season that, without any notification of when and how any change will be implemented, are now woefully short of the value this new, imposed model offers.
What's worse is that you roll this out during draft season.
There are always growing pains with change. I see this as a step in the right direction. The previous classifications put a limit on viable defensive ends and tackles, and left a ton of linebackers, several of which had little value. It made it extremely difficult to give equal value to inside and outside linebackers. Players like K Mack, and Chandler Jones, Shag Barrett, TJ Watt, were undervalued as linebackers but are very good edge rushers.
Love the change, even if it may take a few tweaks here and there to make it work for some leagues.
Simmons is forecast to be a 3-4 OLB, therefore an edge rusher... Gets a DE designation given their new structure.
Brian Burns is more of a head scratcher. 3-4 OLB last year (designated as a DE). Panthers scheme change this year back to a 4-3... He somehow becomes a linebacker?
Whilst I think we should absolutely have the EDGE position instead of DE/OLB, making this change 3 months into the season refresh has royally messed up a lot of drafts (and waiver bucks claims) for owners. If you had announced this change and pushed it through following the next Super Bowl, I'm sure you'd get little pushback.
^^ and that's much the same thought as I have, I love the change but think the timing is atrocious! I would much prefer for this to be implemented with a week or two of the start of a new flea year back in February. Now we already have drafts that are well on their way and it's the large IDP leagues that are most likely to start their drafts early as they are more complex than smaller and medium size leagues with limited or no IDP who may wait until June or even July to start drafting
Imagine if in one league a Commish changed the positions post draft and waivers clearing. They would get lynched and there'd be a lot of quitters. That's what this feels like having this forced upon us 3 months since the year refresh.
Some people have already drafted and then surprise here is this massive change that while a good idea is going to have massive repercussions in the short term because there will be plenty of issues to work out. This needed more notice and planning as well as a way to control some of the impact.
Although I agree the timing could have been better for us diehards, regardless the same issues would have risen for established leagues. Changes would have had to happen. The rookie drafts that have taken place are only being affected by a few players and as such a few players may have been drafted differently. The new startups are hit much harder and will need some adjustments, as this all shakes out, I see more trades happening this offseason, as owners realign to the new positions.
Like the concept, terrible timing. Everyone knows dynasty rookie drafts start right after NFL draft. If this change could not have been put out before then, it needed to be optional. Or saved for 2021. There's now teams already rookie drafted that have multiple starter spots open for no reason. I get that one can't get all the players designated correctly first run, but this sure seems like it was hastily done at the last minute and not given good thought.
It's all very well changing guys like Chandler Jones to DE as he should be, but to then look switch Justin Houston among others to LB when they are STILL DEs is ridiculous! As is changing 3-4 DEs to DTs! I'm so annoyed at this, it doesn't make any sense
Or just change the players designations back that you'be incorrectly changed? Not the right ones like Jones, Mack, etc, the ones you changed to LB even tho they are still DEs
Can't please everyone. I think you have to go with the dual position for some players. Our league's point system is pretty even between position so it doesn't matter a lot. I don't understand how Justin Houston went from DE to LB. Make him, Mack, Miller, Dupree, etc. DE\LB and JJ Watt, Donald, etc. DT\DE.
I just lost huge distinction I had in DT in 3 leagues. I dropped down to 2 LBs in another.
In SHRGR I had 8 lb switch to DE and 2 DE switch to DT
I have 9 starting DE now
6 LB were changed to DE
So if this does not change back and you need a top DE I’m you guy.
Crazy stuff
I now have 5 DT 2 were DE
Just some of the problems this has caused.
We're in our 2nd year in both leagues and did our startup draft, all waivers and trades, and this year's rookie and free agent drafts with players in previous position distinctions.
My scoring takes a hit in the IDP only league. Worse, my leagues are compromised because myself and all my owners made moves and strategies based on previous settings. No one was prepared for this sudden change.
Is there any way those players switching can be used as either or in leagues that were started prior to the change? Even better, can Commissioners override this change? I get the benefits of the idea but the negative effects far outweigh any positives.
I love your app. I don't want to move my league. Don't force this change on us straight out of the blue.
It may balance scoring, however - many of us, especially in money leagues and most importantly have drafted, traded. Etc based on previous distinctions. To change this without warning, after the NFL draft, and after many drafts is irresponsible and utterly ridiculous.
Watt, Mack, etc. You know about that so draft them accordingly. DT and DE distinction was one of the best things about this site. Now you switch a bunch of those - I just ended up with 5 DT and 2 LB and 7 DE with this b.s.
You did this know. People are years into some dynasties. I have an IDP only one. All my tiered scoring and roster specs to allow for teams that play multiple fronts just went all to Hell.
So guys get screwed on the DE DT front with teams that play 3-4 and 4-3 with same personnel. I have a DE on a 3-4 who goes to DT. Gets DT numbers. I have a DE on a squad that identifies as 3-4 but plays almost as much 4-3. That DE switches to DT... Is going to put up great stats when he playing DE in the 4-3 and listed as a DT. You already have the DL option to balance that bit.
The Edge makes sense. DT doesn't. However, established leagues, drafted leagues etc should be allowed to opt in. Otherwise it like me changing my league settings and screwing my managers after draft. That isn't fair and neither is this being force fed post drafts. Allow established leagues right to refuse or ease into it in 2021. All leagues formed AFTER you have this mess figured out can be with the new distinctions. It is the only fair thing to do.
I know other sites use "True Position" which labels 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE as edge, 4-3LB, ILB in 3-4 as LB and rest as DE/DT. Giving a new label as edge and also a new starting option as edge seems best way to implement this amount of change. Then allowing commission to decide whether edge are allowed in DE/LB designations.
To bad only the people that disagree with this are responding to flea. I know several owners that asked for this. I get the timing is poor, but owners just blasting flea leadership is just asinine.
They always try to deliver on what their owners ask for.
The well thought out responses are great whether for or against. The rants aren't needed.
With all due respect BBB, I'm pretty sure that many of those negative replies cite timing as the problem. I'd also add the fact that this was so rushed that the off season scheme changes haven't been considered when realigning the individual player designations.
Simply put, agree with the direction, not with the method.
Should have rolled this out when teams started announcing their official depth charts, therefore giving correct designations and a period for fantasy owners to adapt to any potential change.
My suggestion for a solution. Give the Edge players dual eligibility, but create a second position specifically for this.
i.e. TJ Watt and Khalil Mack are LB/Edge. In existing leagues, they stay as LB and teams aren’t affected. In new leagues, or existing leagues that want to opt in to this functionality, you can use that new designation as a position in your team.
E.g. some of your kickers have dual punter eligibility. In leagues that don’t use punters, they stay as just kickers and the punting part is ignored. In leagues where punters are used, they can play in either position.
I'm not saying that several of you don't have valid points, and as this is my sixth year here, I know flea listens to our concerns. All I'm saying is how you go about presenting those concerns says alot about who you are.
This is too big a change to implement at this point in the off season. I am commish of 30+ dynasty leagues that all use heavy IDP.
We have worked hard over the years to balance IDP and offensive scoring and this really upsets the apple cart.
I think that with the way the NFL is drafting Edge rushers that a change needed to be made, but not in mid May, after most dynasty rookie drafts have happened and after waivers have opened.
I also think that the Fleaflicker player position designations need to match up with the real NFL tram player position designations. Example: Steven Tuitt is a Defensive End for the Steelers and TJ Watt (who is Edge-ish) is an Outside Linebacker.
Wouldn't it make more sense to split Linebacker into ILB/MLB and OLB/Edge...and leave Defensive End and Defensive Tackle alone?
Or for weird hybrid guys like Ryan Kerrigan...who actually listed as as Defensive End by Washington... let the team's designation of them guide how they are listed here in Fleaflicker.
I mean, the NFL pays guys based on their position, as the market dictates. Is Tuitt going to have to take a pay cut now? Lol
I think the logical thing to do is to undo these changes, rethink how to address Edge, then implement next off season in February.
I'll work with whatever changes happen, no worries. That being said, I will also echo that just doing DE/LB eligibility and maybe DT/DE as well would likely solve all of the problems presented here. You'd start each player at a position they'll be competitive at, but it doesn't overvalue any players tremendously either.
Either way, thank you to fleaflounder and all that have worked and conversed to make a change happen, I appreciate you guys. There's a reason as commish that I stick with Fleaflicker and haven't pushed to move to sleeper--it's the ingenuity and flexibility you have here that is unmatched. Sleeper can't even separate scoring by position!
And echo what Meezy said above - it's great that you've listened to the people that asked for this new feature, and I look forward to exploring it more in future.
Now this is sorted, it frees your time up to look at 32 team leagues again.... :)
It would have been easier I believe with flea's flexibility to set specific points per position to make OLB's a position. 3-4 or 4-3 defenses have MLB/ILB, OLB, DE and DT. The issue has always been all LB'S grouped into one position where you can't differentiate the points between the two LB positions.
This is a change that needed to happen. idl, edge, offball lb is the future of standard player value and eliminating the needless variability of coaching changes and the resulting defensive scheme change affecting player values season to season with no predictability. An option to delay implementation for highstakes leagues that already made decions based on previous settings is all that's needed. As far as I'm aware, dual elligibilty is irrelevant for no position left behind scoring leagues
Thanks for working on a way to opt out. Like I said, love the concept but hate the timing. Maybe this beginning gets refined mire with careful and methodical applications. Anyway, thanks for trying to adapt to things and more importantly, thanks for working on an opt out due to timing.
I appreciate the efforts and the Opt Out too, but Linebackers really do need to be split apart to either MLB/ILB or OLB (Edge). Designation wise in the NFL, most Edge guys have an OLB designation. If a player is listed as an OLB or Defensive End in the NFL, they should be listed the same in Fleaflicker.
We're renaming DE to EDR and DT to IL (but you can opt out):
Defensive End (DE) has been renamed Edge Rusher (EDR) and now includes outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense (e.g., Khalil Mack, TJ Watt, Shaq Barrett).
Defensive Tackle (DT) has been renamed Interior Lineman (IL) and now includes defensive ends in a 3-4 defense (e.g., Calais Campbell, Matt Ioannidis, Jonathan Allen).
Why? Edge rushers in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive ends, not linebackers. And defensive ends in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive tackles. This makes the scoring more balanced in IDP leagues.
NOTE Commissioners can opt-out of the new designations and convert their league back to traditional DE, DT, and LB. You can switch to the old designations (or back to the new ones) at any time: League » Settings » Edit Roster Requirements » Custom. Then click Use EDR/IL/LB or Use traditional DE/DT/LB.
opt out seems to work fine, thanks. I look forward to using the new system in a few leagues this year and in my larger leagues next year once we have hammered out how to best incorporate them and get the leagues on board with the changes
Thanks a lot to all at Flea for offering the opt-out option. Our league is still in the middle of our rookie draft. We didn't mind the change, but we felt the timing was bad, so we're going to opt-out of this change for this year.
My question is, will this opt-out option be a 1 year thing for the 2020 season? Or will we be able to opt-out in future seasons? This league is a dynasty league, and we're fine either way. We just want to be able to plan for the future when it comes to our IDPs. If the opt-out option is just a 1 year thing for 2020, we all have 1 year to plan accordingly. But if we have the opt-out options in future seasons, we'll have to decide whether or not we want to change our IDPs in future seasons.
So far all twenty of the leagues I commish have voted to move forward with the new positions, some are post draft, some are mid draft and some are waiting to draft rooks. Thanks flea for the hard work.
The whole idea of the new positions was to address the players you listed, as they are designated linebackers by the defense scheme they play in. So why would they be changed to DE?
MeeezySat 5/2/20 11:42 AM
Browsing through older topics, it does appear that this conversation has taken place many times before--IDP position assignments.
My question is then: Has there been any progress on this front?
This year's example that was brought to my attention as commissioner being K'Lavon Chaisson, who is listed as an LB, therefore making him essentially useless.
Even if positions are determined via an external data partner, is there any chance commissioners could gain the ability to tweak positional eligibility? Or at least instead of following your data partner's information to a T, couldn't players such as Chaisson and Bradley Chubb be given LB/DL eligibility?
This could apply to someone like Taysom Hill as well, with QB/TE eligibility.
Thank you!
fleafounder AdminSat 5/2/20 1:35 PM
We’re going to be adding a new position with 4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 outside linebackers.
I believe that help your league?
MeeezySun 5/3/20 5:35 PM
It does, thank you! Will this possibly be implemented before kickoff this year?
fleafounder AdminMon 5/4/20 3:08 PM
Absolutely, we hope to have it ready by May 15.
System6Sat 5/16/20 11:22 AM
Any update on this, Ori? I know quite a few owners looking forward to this addition
fleafounder AdminSat 5/16/20 11:52 AM
Yes coming Monday!
System6Sat 5/16/20 12:15 PM
Good deal, appreciate the quick feedback
fleafounder AdminSun 5/17/20 9:47 PM
Here are some examples of the changes:
Khalil Mack LB→DE
T.J. Watt LB→DE
Shaquil Barrett LB→DE
Chandler Jones LB→DE
Bradley Chubb LB→DE
Von Miller LB→DE
Calais Campbell DE→DT
Matt Ioannidis DE→DT
Let us know what you think! Changes should be live by Monday evening.
System6Mon 5/18/20 9:19 AM
So, will certain players have a dual designation across all leagues on flea regardless if the leagues are not using the Edge/DE - DT/DE ?
Or will the league have to be using the added new position feature?
fleafounder AdminMon 5/18/20 2:26 PM
No dual eligibility. Edge rushers in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive ends, not linebackers. And defensive ends in a 3-4 defense have stats comparable to defensive tackles. This makes the scoring more balanced in IDP leagues.
For example, JJ Watt was the #22 ranked LB last year in our standard scoring. With this change, he'll be tied for #1 DE.
HarveycMon 5/18/20 4:37 PM
Please explain Brian Burns' LB designation? He effectively played a similar position to TJ Watt last year...
[Deleted User]Mon 5/18/20 4:43 PM
JJ Watt was a DE last year...
Guys, it’s a great new feature, but it should have been an optional one to switch on. For existing leagues (I have one with 8 years of history), arbitrarily introducing this change has completely changed the value of a lot of teams rosters, both positively and negatively.
There are several teams who have drafted teams to fit in with the league’s longstanding roster requirements, and now can no longer field enough LBs. Others now have a surplus of DEs.
Also, by doing this in the middle of rookie draft season, teams that thought they were drafting a LB have now found themselves with a DE (Isaiah Simmons), or drafting a DE and now owning a DT (Yetur Gross Matos).
Yes, you can make position adjustments as you have done previously when teams switch between 3-4/4-3 etc, but I don’t think enough thought has gone into the impact this has had on existing leagues and live drafts.
We play in leagues with the understanding that the rules are set at a certain point in time, it’s a level playing field and we’re all drafting, setting lineups and making trades/waiver claims/adds/drops with those league rules in mind.
If leagues want to take advantage of this new feature, we should be able to opt in to it, in the same way as we can configure everything else.
I appreciate what you’re doing to improve your site and offer as many features as you can, but I think you need to reconsider how you’ve rolled this out, and give people the option to choose if/how/when they implement these changes.
WAM9Mon 5/18/20 4:54 PM
Fully agree with spida1998 that this should be an optional change at least for a 1 year notice period as it can be a game changer for some team and truly affects the way some of us have constructed our team. Add the change in the middle (or in my case late) of your draft makes it tougher as well.
TheBovMon 5/18/20 4:56 PM
I totally agree with everything said here spida1998.
A major selling point by Flea to all new customers to their site is their total flexibility offered to commishes setting up leagues as they see fit. That has been severely dented by this change today IMO.
HarveycMon 5/18/20 5:01 PM
In 100% agreement with the 3 posts above. I've made moves in the off season that, without any notification of when and how any change will be implemented, are now woefully short of the value this new, imposed model offers.
What's worse is that you roll this out during draft season.
rangerdaveMon 5/18/20 5:02 PM
How is Isaiah Simmons a DE?
bigbaldbastardMon 5/18/20 5:10 PM
There are always growing pains with change. I see this as a step in the right direction. The previous classifications put a limit on viable defensive ends and tackles, and left a ton of linebackers, several of which had little value. It made it extremely difficult to give equal value to inside and outside linebackers. Players like K Mack, and Chandler Jones, Shag Barrett, TJ Watt, were undervalued as linebackers but are very good edge rushers.
Love the change, even if it may take a few tweaks here and there to make it work for some leagues.
Thanks
HarveycMon 5/18/20 5:15 PM
Simmons is forecast to be a 3-4 OLB, therefore an edge rusher... Gets a DE designation given their new structure.
Brian Burns is more of a head scratcher. 3-4 OLB last year (designated as a DE). Panthers scheme change this year back to a 4-3... He somehow becomes a linebacker?
[Deleted User]Mon 5/18/20 5:15 PM
Whilst I think we should absolutely have the EDGE position instead of DE/OLB, making this change 3 months into the season refresh has royally messed up a lot of drafts (and waiver bucks claims) for owners. If you had announced this change and pushed it through following the next Super Bowl, I'm sure you'd get little pushback.
BlackOmegaMon 5/18/20 5:20 PM
^^ and that's much the same thought as I have, I love the change but think the timing is atrocious! I would much prefer for this to be implemented with a week or two of the start of a new flea year back in February. Now we already have drafts that are well on their way and it's the large IDP leagues that are most likely to start their drafts early as they are more complex than smaller and medium size leagues with limited or no IDP who may wait until June or even July to start drafting
[Deleted User]Mon 5/18/20 5:21 PM
Imagine if in one league a Commish changed the positions post draft and waivers clearing. They would get lynched and there'd be a lot of quitters. That's what this feels like having this forced upon us 3 months since the year refresh.
JynxedMon 5/18/20 5:34 PM
Some people have already drafted and then surprise here is this massive change that while a good idea is going to have massive repercussions in the short term because there will be plenty of issues to work out. This needed more notice and planning as well as a way to control some of the impact.
bigbaldbastardMon 5/18/20 5:36 PM
Although I agree the timing could have been better for us diehards, regardless the same issues would have risen for established leagues. Changes would have had to happen. The rookie drafts that have taken place are only being affected by a few players and as such a few players may have been drafted differently. The new startups are hit much harder and will need some adjustments, as this all shakes out, I see more trades happening this offseason, as owners realign to the new positions.
DairyAireMon 5/18/20 5:58 PM
Like the concept, terrible timing. Everyone knows dynasty rookie drafts start right after NFL draft. If this change could not have been put out before then, it needed to be optional. Or saved for 2021. There's now teams already rookie drafted that have multiple starter spots open for no reason. I get that one can't get all the players designated correctly first run, but this sure seems like it was hastily done at the last minute and not given good thought.
FalconWarriorMon 5/18/20 7:55 PM
It's all very well changing guys like Chandler Jones to DE as he should be, but to then look switch Justin Houston among others to LB when they are STILL DEs is ridiculous! As is changing 3-4 DEs to DTs! I'm so annoyed at this, it doesn't make any sense
fleafounder AdminMon 5/18/20 8:02 PM
We hear you! Going to come up with a solution to let you opt out of the new designations asap.
FalconWarriorMon 5/18/20 8:05 PM
Or just change the players designations back that you'be incorrectly changed? Not the right ones like Jones, Mack, etc, the ones you changed to LB even tho they are still DEs
fleafounder AdminMon 5/18/20 8:16 PM
Ah yes that is definitely a mistake, thanks for calling it out. Let us know if you spot any others.
MonteMMon 5/18/20 8:20 PM
Can't please everyone. I think you have to go with the dual position for some players. Our league's point system is pretty even between position so it doesn't matter a lot. I don't understand how Justin Houston went from DE to LB. Make him, Mack, Miller, Dupree, etc. DE\LB and JJ Watt, Donald, etc. DT\DE.
System6Mon 5/18/20 8:33 PM
Ryan Connelly/Dave Mayo. Both Inside Linebackers listed as DEs
FalconWarriorMon 5/18/20 8:38 PM
3-4 DLs really shouldnt be ALL DTs. I would address that one as well as reverting the mistakes made with position changes
MonteMMon 5/18/20 9:03 PM
Patterson was a RB\WR. Dual positions is the simple answer.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:04 PM
Regarding the new LB to DE and DE to DT switches.
Cool idea. Awful timing.
I just lost huge distinction I had in DT in 3 leagues. I dropped down to 2 LBs in another.
In SHRGR I had 8 lb switch to DE and 2 DE switch to DT
I have 9 starting DE now
6 LB were changed to DE
So if this does not change back and you need a top DE I’m you guy.
Crazy stuff
I now have 5 DT 2 were DE
Just some of the problems this has caused.
We're in our 2nd year in both leagues and did our startup draft, all waivers and trades, and this year's rookie and free agent drafts with players in previous position distinctions.
My scoring takes a hit in the IDP only league. Worse, my leagues are compromised because myself and all my owners made moves and strategies based on previous settings. No one was prepared for this sudden change.
Is there any way those players switching can be used as either or in leagues that were started prior to the change? Even better, can Commissioners override this change? I get the benefits of the idea but the negative effects far outweigh any positives.
I love your app. I don't want to move my league. Don't force this change on us straight out of the blue.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:07 PM
It may balance scoring, however - many of us, especially in money leagues and most importantly have drafted, traded. Etc based on previous distinctions. To change this without warning, after the NFL draft, and after many drafts is irresponsible and utterly ridiculous.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:09 PM
Some of the teams you have switched players from play 3-4 and 4-3
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:21 PM
Watt, Mack, etc. You know about that so draft them accordingly. DT and DE distinction was one of the best things about this site. Now you switch a bunch of those - I just ended up with 5 DT and 2 LB and 7 DE with this b.s.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:23 PM
You did this know. People are years into some dynasties. I have an IDP only one. All my tiered scoring and roster specs to allow for teams that play multiple fronts just went all to Hell.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:25 PM
We are the customer. The customer is always right. Allow a choice or hold this off another season to let managers rework their strategies.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:26 PM
Now. Two posts above
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:29 PM
Nice concept. Horrible timing. And you already have enough custom scoring options to make up for lost position value
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:32 PM
POOR TIMING. SWITCH BACK OR LET DYNASTY COMMISSIONERS OVERRIDE!!!
FalconWarriorMon 5/18/20 10:40 PM
I don't understand why the hell you would designate a 3-4 DE as a DT
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:55 PM
So guys get screwed on the DE DT front with teams that play 3-4 and 4-3 with same personnel. I have a DE on a 3-4 who goes to DT. Gets DT numbers. I have a DE on a squad that identifies as 3-4 but plays almost as much 4-3. That DE switches to DT... Is going to put up great stats when he playing DE in the 4-3 and listed as a DT. You already have the DL option to balance that bit.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:57 PM
What's next Slot CB?
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 10:59 PM
Gadget for offense.
Crom75Mon 5/18/20 11:11 PM
The Edge makes sense. DT doesn't. However, established leagues, drafted leagues etc should be allowed to opt in. Otherwise it like me changing my league settings and screwing my managers after draft. That isn't fair and neither is this being force fed post drafts. Allow established leagues right to refuse or ease into it in 2021. All leagues formed AFTER you have this mess figured out can be with the new distinctions. It is the only fair thing to do.
BLemTue 5/19/20 1:26 AM
I know other sites use "True Position" which labels 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE as edge, 4-3LB, ILB in 3-4 as LB and rest as DE/DT. Giving a new label as edge and also a new starting option as edge seems best way to implement this amount of change. Then allowing commission to decide whether edge are allowed in DE/LB designations.
bigbaldbastardTue 5/19/20 2:18 AM
To bad only the people that disagree with this are responding to flea. I know several owners that asked for this. I get the timing is poor, but owners just blasting flea leadership is just asinine.
They always try to deliver on what their owners ask for.
The well thought out responses are great whether for or against. The rants aren't needed.
FalconWarriorTue 5/19/20 2:34 AM
They asked for DEs to be designated as LBers? They asked for all 3-4 Defensive linemen to be designated as DTs? I think not
HarveycTue 5/19/20 2:47 AM
With all due respect BBB, I'm pretty sure that many of those negative replies cite timing as the problem. I'd also add the fact that this was so rushed that the off season scheme changes haven't been considered when realigning the individual player designations.
Simply put, agree with the direction, not with the method.
Should have rolled this out when teams started announcing their official depth charts, therefore giving correct designations and a period for fantasy owners to adapt to any potential change.
[Deleted User]Tue 5/19/20 2:55 AM
My suggestion for a solution. Give the Edge players dual eligibility, but create a second position specifically for this.
i.e. TJ Watt and Khalil Mack are LB/Edge. In existing leagues, they stay as LB and teams aren’t affected. In new leagues, or existing leagues that want to opt in to this functionality, you can use that new designation as a position in your team.
E.g. some of your kickers have dual punter eligibility. In leagues that don’t use punters, they stay as just kickers and the punting part is ignored. In leagues where punters are used, they can play in either position.
bigbaldbastardTue 5/19/20 4:07 AM
I'm not saying that several of you don't have valid points, and as this is my sixth year here, I know flea listens to our concerns. All I'm saying is how you go about presenting those concerns says alot about who you are.
ImthegoatTue 5/19/20 7:20 AM
This is too big a change to implement at this point in the off season. I am commish of 30+ dynasty leagues that all use heavy IDP.
We have worked hard over the years to balance IDP and offensive scoring and this really upsets the apple cart.
I think that with the way the NFL is drafting Edge rushers that a change needed to be made, but not in mid May, after most dynasty rookie drafts have happened and after waivers have opened.
I also think that the Fleaflicker player position designations need to match up with the real NFL tram player position designations. Example: Steven Tuitt is a Defensive End for the Steelers and TJ Watt (who is Edge-ish) is an Outside Linebacker.
Wouldn't it make more sense to split Linebacker into ILB/MLB and OLB/Edge...and leave Defensive End and Defensive Tackle alone?
Or for weird hybrid guys like Ryan Kerrigan...who actually listed as as Defensive End by Washington... let the team's designation of them guide how they are listed here in Fleaflicker.
I mean, the NFL pays guys based on their position, as the market dictates. Is Tuitt going to have to take a pay cut now? Lol
I think the logical thing to do is to undo these changes, rethink how to address Edge, then implement next off season in February.
fleafounder AdminTue 5/19/20 8:29 AM
We’re planning on offering a way for commissioners to opt out and use the previous designations in the next 24-48 hours.
MeeezyTue 5/19/20 9:57 AM
I'll work with whatever changes happen, no worries. That being said, I will also echo that just doing DE/LB eligibility and maybe DT/DE as well would likely solve all of the problems presented here. You'd start each player at a position they'll be competitive at, but it doesn't overvalue any players tremendously either.
MeeezyTue 5/19/20 9:59 AM
Either way, thank you to fleaflounder and all that have worked and conversed to make a change happen, I appreciate you guys. There's a reason as commish that I stick with Fleaflicker and haven't pushed to move to sleeper--it's the ingenuity and flexibility you have here that is unmatched. Sleeper can't even separate scoring by position!
[Deleted User]Tue 5/19/20 9:59 AM
Appreciate the swift response and potential option to revert to previous designations, thank you.
[Deleted User]Tue 5/19/20 10:00 AM
And echo what Meezy said above - it's great that you've listened to the people that asked for this new feature, and I look forward to exploring it more in future.
Now this is sorted, it frees your time up to look at 32 team leagues again.... :)
bigbaldbastardTue 5/19/20 10:08 AM
It would have been easier I believe with flea's flexibility to set specific points per position to make OLB's a position. 3-4 or 4-3 defenses have MLB/ILB, OLB, DE and DT. The issue has always been all LB'S grouped into one position where you can't differentiate the points between the two LB positions.
RotoMotoTue 5/19/20 10:41 AM
Welcome this kind of change, or the dual eligibility ideas. Way to be Flea
HospesTue 5/19/20 5:27 PM
This is a change that needed to happen. idl, edge, offball lb is the future of standard player value and eliminating the needless variability of coaching changes and the resulting defensive scheme change affecting player values season to season with no predictability. An option to delay implementation for highstakes leagues that already made decions based on previous settings is all that's needed. As far as I'm aware, dual elligibilty is irrelevant for no position left behind scoring leagues
Crom75Wed 5/20/20 1:03 AM
Thanks for working on a way to opt out. Like I said, love the concept but hate the timing. Maybe this beginning gets refined mire with careful and methodical applications. Anyway, thanks for trying to adapt to things and more importantly, thanks for working on an opt out due to timing.
ImthegoatWed 5/20/20 7:15 AM
I appreciate the efforts and the Opt Out too, but Linebackers really do need to be split apart to either MLB/ILB or OLB (Edge). Designation wise in the NFL, most Edge guys have an OLB designation. If a player is listed as an OLB or Defensive End in the NFL, they should be listed the same in Fleaflicker.
TampaJackieWed 5/20/20 7:32 PM
Is this going to be a one year opt out?
fleafounder AdminWed 5/20/20 10:15 PM
The opt-out feature is now live, details below.
You can switch your league back to the old designations at any time (or switch back to the new ones).
If something isn't working the way you expect just reach out to us here and we'll take a look: fleaflicker.com
fleaflicker.com
BlackOmegaThu 5/21/20 2:27 AM
opt out seems to work fine, thanks. I look forward to using the new system in a few leagues this year and in my larger leagues next year once we have hammered out how to best incorporate them and get the leagues on board with the changes
flotsamnjetsamFri 5/22/20 3:54 PM
Thanks a lot to all at Flea for offering the opt-out option. Our league is still in the middle of our rookie draft. We didn't mind the change, but we felt the timing was bad, so we're going to opt-out of this change for this year.
My question is, will this opt-out option be a 1 year thing for the 2020 season? Or will we be able to opt-out in future seasons? This league is a dynasty league, and we're fine either way. We just want to be able to plan for the future when it comes to our IDPs. If the opt-out option is just a 1 year thing for 2020, we all have 1 year to plan accordingly. But if we have the opt-out options in future seasons, we'll have to decide whether or not we want to change our IDPs in future seasons.
Thanks in advance!
fleafounder AdminFri 5/22/20 3:59 PM
Opt out will always be available. Your league rules will stay the same until you decide to change them.
flotsamnjetsamFri 5/22/20 4:10 PM
OK, thanks & have a good weekend!
bigbaldbastardFri 5/22/20 4:17 PM
So far all twenty of the leagues I commish have voted to move forward with the new positions, some are post draft, some are mid draft and some are waiting to draft rooks. Thanks flea for the hard work.
elgriffSat 5/23/20 10:37 AM
Thank you for fixing the obvious mistakes like Isaiah Simmons, Ryan Connelly, and K'Lavon Chaisson!
AndyDaltonTue 6/16/20 11:22 PM
Will the following changes be made in those leagues opting out of the new IDP format?
Khalil Mack LB→DE
T.J. Watt LB→DE
Shaquil Barrett LB→DE
Chandler Jones LB→DE
Bradley Chubb LB→DE
Von Miller LB→DE
bigbaldbastardWed 6/17/20 1:13 AM
The whole idea of the new positions was to address the players you listed, as they are designated linebackers by the defense scheme they play in. So why would they be changed to DE?
fleafounder AdminWed 6/17/20 10:26 AM
Correct -- if you're looking to reclassify LBs that play on the edge as DE you'll need to opt back into the new designations.