scotto1959 5 years ago

DL/LB scoring same play, same player for 2 positions. ie: Orakpo 1 tackle= 2 points atDL plus 1 point at LB for 3 points for the same tackle??? You guys are stupid!!!

dmw71 3 years ago

Moving post to bottom: As the primary scoring concern my league had last season, I'm checking in to see if this situation has been addressed for the upcoming season?

FleaMod Admin 3 years ago

There are no IDPs with dual eligibility in the NFL (see the following link for how we made those changes: (fleaflicker.com), so this should be a moot point there on defense.

On offense, McCluster of the Chiefs does still have dual eligibility in the system, but with Jamaal Charles back, the signing of Peyton Hillis, Cyrus Gray in the mix and Shaun Draughn getting 12 carries in the first preseason game, it's likely McCluster will move back to WR. He was mostly playing WR in camp, but we wanted to wait for the first game action to move him. We also want to wait until the second game to officially move him (why he is still dual) because playbooks are less vanilla than the first/starters play more. Since he'll be primarily a WR, he'll likely move over and lose RB eligibility.

We mostly take care of all these cases before Week 3 of the preseason (that's the deadline we give the team who handles the positions to make most of their case-by-case calls). There are some cases where players may switch once the season starts, but very rare and unlikely (we had none last year that changed in the NFL with an OWN % of over 8% in season).

dmw71 3 years ago

That is probably the cleanest solution. I know you probably won't make everyone happy (e.g. "but so-and-so should be available as a LB!"), but I like the fix. Thanks!

thriftyrocker 3 years ago

McCluster is now listed as WR-only. Were there any other changes?

thriftyrocker 3 years ago

Any chance Clay (MIA) or Casey (HOU) will get TE eligibility (or RB/TE)?

FFCSR_Hal Admin 3 years ago

We have a team that does this. Relayed from them:

No McCluster was the only change as he was not given any carries for the second week in a row after watching the game live again.

Clay is correctly at RB for this season at least. When Sparano was there, he was pretty much strictly a RB. With Sparano gone, they'll move him around the field, but he'll be left there in our system for the year.

Casey is going to be left at RB for sure as well. He is starting at fullback this season (though I'm sure Kubiak will move him around as well). We're not going to be giving dual eligibility away really anymore with much leniency. If that was the case then you can argue 25-40% of the player pool can have dual eligibilities.

McCluster, Clay and Casey are good examples, but it's just not justifiable based on what we read, watch on film and who we confer with in the NFL league office (former and current employees there).

thriftyrocker 3 years ago

Thanks for opening the pod bay doors Hal!

mountainlion43 3 years ago

[Deleted]

FFCSR_Hal Admin 3 years ago

Affirmative, Thrifty

dmw71 4 years ago

This is in response to this: fleaflicker.com

Tough questions. Questions I don't claim to have definitive answers for, but if I were in a decision-making position, here is how I would handle players with multiple positions started in true flex positions.

1. What happens when a player is started at a flex? E.g., Mario Williams started at DL/LB. Which rules should apply?

When a player is started as a true flex and not a designated position, I would default the scoring to that players "official" position. I scrolled through the players listed on your site and all but one have a consensus "official" position between NFL.com and the official team website of the player, shown below:

Elvis Dumervil (DE)

nfl.com

denverbroncos.com

Michael Johnson (DL)

nfl.com

bengals.com

Chris Kelsay (LB)

nfl.com

buffalobills.com

Dexter McCluster (WR)

nfl.com

kcchiefs.com

Rob Ninkovich (DE / LB)

nfl.com

patriots.com

Terrell Suggs (LB)

nfl.com

baltimoreravens.com

Mario Williams (LB)

nfl.com

houstontexans.com

Rob Ninkovich is the single exception where the listed positions are inconsistent between NFL.com (DL) and the official Patriot website (LB). In this situation, I would simply choose a source (even if different from NFL.com or the official team website) and stick with it.

2. What points should be displayed for the player's cumulative season total (like when browsing free agents)?

When a player with multiple positions is a free agent, they can appear in (at least) three different views as far as I can tell:

* Position 1 (e.g. DL)

* Position 2 (e.g. LB)

* Multi-position view (e.g. DB/DL/LB)

That said, when a player is being searched for in a specific position they qualify for, I would suggest calculating the points and rank the player using the scoring rules for that position.

For example, if a league had different scoring rules for DL and LB and Terrell Suggs was a free agent, an owner searching for a free agent LB would show Terrell Suggs as he would score as a LB (not a DL). Likewise, if the owner were to switch search views and look for a DL free agent, Terrell Suggs as he would score as a DL (not a LB). However, if the owner is searching multiple positions at the same time (DB/DL/LB), I would use the "official" position for that player to dictate what points and rankings are displayed for that player.

Again, those are just my suggestions.

dmw71 4 years ago

One other thing I just thought of is allowing commissioners the ability to adjust the positions of players. It would be simple to have each owner decide which single position they want to use their "slash" players in (either permanently, or, ideally, on a week-to-week basis).

If the scoring rules in a particular league favor DL over LB, an owner would be able to set their slash player to DL as their default option, but could request that their commissioner change that players' position from DL to LB on a particular week if they need to cover for another player on a bye, spot start to cover for an injured player, etc...

dmw71 4 years ago

^bump^

I can't figure out from below whether or not this was fixed?

I sent the following into the support e-mail address but also wanted to put this out in the open forums for the benefit of others as well.

[e-mail]

I have read many threads regarding dual eligibility players and most seem to address the matter of their taking up slots.

fleaflicker.com

fleaflicker.com

My question has to do with scoring, which was asked (and I don't see fully answered) in this post.

"Da18thLetter28 19 Days

Dual eligibility would be fine with me, I would just like for FleaFlicker to fix the scoring so that dual eligible players only get the points for the position they are actually playing on a fantasy roster.

Example: I try to set my scoring up where a WR gets a different amount of points for a reception than a RB does. Let's say a WR gets 1 point for a reception and a RB gets 1.25 points for a reception. The way things are set up now, a player with the WR/RB dual eligibility would get 2.25 points per reception regardless of which fantasy roster spot he is taking up. I have the same problem with dual eligible LB/DL. I can't set up my scoring the way I would like because of this. I want the best players to score the most points in my league and it is next to impossible to level the playing ground for a DL and a LB as long as the dual eligible guys get both sets of points. Please fix this ASAP. Thank you. Hal, I am pretty sure you already know my views on this as we have discussed this before. I hope progress is being made on this front."

There may be more examples than the two players below, but they're the two I am aware of. Both have DL/LB and, since the two different positions have different scoring rules, they are being awarded points for both positions.

Terrell Suggs was started as a DL

Mario Williams was started as a LB

Yet, both players were awarded points for sacks as if they were both LB and DL

Terrell Suggs

3 points for every Sack applied to 3 Sacks 9

4 points for every Sack applied to 3 Sacks 12

Mario Williams

3 points for every Sack applied to 2 Sacks 6

4 points for every Sack applied to 2 Sacks 8

This makes a significant difference in scoring. We intend to only award points to a player for the position they are started in. Can someone please respond with an explanation on how this works?

Thanks,

- Dave (dmw71)

fleafounder Admin 4 years ago

There's a limitation in our custom scoring system right now, it can't detect where you started a player.

We calculate points based just on player position and stats, not based on where he was started.

I agree with you it needs to be fixed for IDP leagues but right now it's not feasible.

What we can do without much effort is award multi-positional players the higher or lower of the two values. If there's interest in that I can put it out. It's probably better than the way it is now.

dmw71 4 years ago

"award multi-positional players the higher or lower of the two values"

That is a far superior option than awarding them points for both. Truthfully, this is probably is significant enough where I might be forced to migrate my league to a different site (probably back to MyFantasyLeague) in time for week two if not addressed.

Is there a chance this fix could be in place before week two?

Thanks,

- Dave (dmw71)

fleafounder Admin 4 years ago

Sure, deploying a fix now. It will show the first of the rules to appear that applies to the multi-positional player in question. Here is Mario Williams in your league for week 1.

I know this isn't the right solution but it's the best I can do without a full re-write of our system.

It is on our list of things to do to support what you request. But there are some tricky cases to consider. If you could answer the following that will help us:

1. What happens when a player is started at a flex? E.g., Mario Williams started at DL/LB. Which rules should apply?

2. What points should be displayed for the player's cumulative season total (like when browsing free agents)?

Thanks.

dmw71 4 years ago

"It will show the first of the rules to appear that applies to the multi-positional player in question."

Is there a simple way to order these scoring rules? I would ultimately want to order my scoring rules from most beneficial-to-least beneficial.

dmw71 3 years ago

As the primary scoring concern my league had last season, I'm checking in to see if this situation has been addressed for the upcoming season?

rlwomack 4 years ago

I was wondering same thing. It happens to Suggs, Orakpo, Hali w/ KC. I have separate rules for LB and DL trying to work around it but it still awards double points. Please advise as to how to fix this. Thanks.

[Deleted User] 4 years ago

system looks at it this way, 3-4 defense three linemen and a LB is also on the line. NO different when a WR gets points for a touchdown twice when he runs one for a kickoff

FFCSR_Hal Admin 5 years ago

It is right for leagues with separate rules for both LB and DL -- the system can't

know which to apply. You'd have to change your rules to prevent this.

luke1982 5 years ago

Or y'all would have to do away with dual position players.

scotto1959 5 years ago

Your wrong, fix it!!!

DARKSEID 5 years ago

.....and the way to change your rules to prevent this is?????????

scotto1959 5 years ago

Hal you tard, it's not right. Like Brian said how????? You give me the fix super Hal!!!!

babartur2 5 years ago

you must know hal and the rest of the fleaflicker group.

FFCSR_Hal Admin 5 years ago

thanks looking into

rlwomack 4 years ago

It seems to be fixed now. Thanks for looking into it.

rangerdave 4 years ago

How would it seem to be fixed? There are no new stats to support your claim.

rlwomack 4 years ago

Based on last years stats.

rangerdave 4 years ago

That doesn't mean we won't run into the same problem when/ if the Flea season starts.

rlwomack 4 years ago

You may be right. I'm basing it on when I originally posted on 4 days ago the problem, Suggs, Orakpo, Hali w/ KC (listed as DL/LB) were getting points for both DL and LB when I pulled up the fantasy performance for 2010 to see how my scoring system projected. When I checked 1 day ago, the same three players were only getting one position's points. To me, it seems the problem is fixed.